World needs caring & compassionate capitalism instead of ruthless & predatory capitalism
Here's a Facebook post share https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/1728379924045244, where USA Senator Bernie Sanders is quoted as saying, "Pope Francis has forcefully reminded us that greed, and the worship of money, is not what human existence should be about." The post also quotes Senator Sanders as saying, "The pope is right in saying all of us must address the grotesque income and wealth inequality we are seeing throughout the world."
Please note that I have a NEUTRAL informal-student-observer role in these posts that I put up about the USA presidential elections. Of course, as I am an Indian citizen living in India, there is no question of me voting in these elections.
On the above-mentioned Facebook post, I was asked a question about my views on wealth & income gap between richest of the rich and poorest of the poor. I responded as follows (slightly edited):
Sairam brother --name-snipped--. Thanks for your comment.
My thoughts on this matter are evolving - I mean I am not that well read on these matters, and my thoughts are based on what I have experienced in my life in India and in the materially developed world (Western world mainly), and some little bit of reading and viewing videos.
I think some level of wealth and income gap between people, including the gap between "the richest of richest and poorest of poorest" is natural. More capable people who work hard tend to become rich. People who have an aversion to work, and lack skills or knowledge, tend to become poor. The poorest of the poor are usually those who also end up with some bad addiction like alcohol, or even narcotic drugs.
But it is when people who are willing to work hard but can't find decent jobs, and are willing to study but lack the funds needed to pay high college tuition fees, and when among those who study some/many end up with worthless knowledge and worthless paper degrees along with a high level of college debt, that a society itself can unravel. At such times, the large number of have-nots tend to get together and direct their anger, and sometimes hatred unfortunately, towards the haves, especially the very rich. This is what history teaches us. The worst world war in the history of humanity, World War II, was preceded by financially catastrophic conditions in Germany during the Great Depression years. That enabled the maniacal Adolf Hitler with his equally maniacal Nazi party leaders to come to power and lead Germany and many parts of the industrialized world then into a horrendous world war. They also committed perhaps the greatest genocide in history against fellow human beings by their maniacal killing of 6 million Jews in the Holocaust.
To avoid similar catastrophes from recurring, I think there is a need to reduce the huge levels of wealth & income inequality that currently are a reality in the Western world and even China & India. But I am not for any kind of authoritarian communism NOR for socialism of a kind that stifles free enterprise and encourages dependency. I think the world needs a kind of caring capitalism or compassionate capitalism different from the ruthless and predatory capitalism that brought the USA and the world at large to the brink of a financial catastrophe during the financial crisis of 2007-08.
---end comment---
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A correspondent (C) wrote in response (and was OK with sharing publicly; slightly edited to fix a typo):
The pope and Mr. Sanders are way behind and offer little but words. Getting anywhere near where we want to be requires decades, if not centuries. A famous and popular Danish politician, nationalist, and priest Nicholai Grundtvig said about 150 years ago: We want a country where few have too much and fewer have too little.And he said that well after the land reforms and education reforms.
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I (Ravi) responded (slightly edited):
Thank you very much for introducing me to Grundtvig. I don't think I have come across his name earlier!
I saw the introductory paragraph of his wiki page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N._F._S._Grundtvig, and have been quite impressed. Plan to read more on him when I get the time. I loved his quote which you shared "We want a country where few have too much and fewer have too little". I must remember it.
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Correspondent C wrote back:
He [Ravi: Grundtvig] is - for many reasons - not well known outside Denmark. The wikipedia page is good and as far as I remember accurate. You might like his ideas on education.
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Terry Reis Kennedy wrote (and was OK with public sharing):
Thanks, Ravi...........I agree with most of this. However, I don't agree that "More capable people who work hard tend to become rich. People who have an aversion to work, and lack skills or knowledge, tend to become poor. The poorest of the poor are usually those who also end up with some bad addiction like alcohol, or even narcotic drugs."
You are forgetting that many rich people just inherit wealth and don't work at all, people who I know very well; and the poor are often some of the most highly educated people and the hardest of workers that for karmic reasons, perhaps, never make it......
Overall, this statement is a generalization in my view. And among the richest and the poorest there is alcohol and drug addiction. If we go beyond the USA we find that there is still slave labor in India, China, Latin America, Africa......and to correct myself in the USA too.
About two years ago, a huge case was settled for mentally handicapped men who were kept locked up in a dormitory at a huge turkey farm and were the ones to gut and clean the turkeys for big corporations. They received pay of $60 per week and they had to pay that out for rent and for food and personal items to the only store they were allowed to shop in...the company store. They never left the compound of where they were forced to live. These men grew physically handicapped from the work of having to scoop out the innards of the turkeys with their bare hands etc. etc. Long hours standing on a cement floor hunched them over, permanently bent.
This had gone on for years until an investigative journalist did some research and opened up the lie that these corporate turkey dealers, all billionaires, had kept hidden in some backwater southern hick town. A class action suit was filed on behalf of the living workers and the dead as well......The men were awarded millions of dollars each, some were reunited with their families who had been told they were dead since childhood when many of them had gone missing being corralled into this slave labor. Those who were able to moved into housing where they could care for themselves. The guilty top execs escaped prison but the managers of the work camp did not. This story brought tears to my eyes when I read it in the USA. It's proof to me that exposing the truth for the good of humanity is the very best thing that a writer can do.
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I (Ravi) wrote:
Thanks Terry for your very informative, thought-provoking and moving comment. I will respond to it a little later.
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My (Ravi) response to Terry Reis Kennedy:
Perhaps you are right that I made a generalization when I wrote, "More capable people who work hard tend to become rich. People who have an aversion to work, and lack skills or knowledge, tend to become poor. The poorest of the poor are usually those who also end up with some bad addiction like alcohol, or even narcotic drugs."
However, I would argue that I did not attempt to explain all scenarios, and further I used the word, 'tend' to indicate that there would be exceptions. I think I should modify the first sentence to include both reasonably well off (middle class type) or rich.
It has been my observation in my life in India with some exposure to Western world life too in the 80s & 90s but not extensive exposure, that capable people who work hard do tend to succeed materially, even if that success may be only a middle-class type success for some and a very rich type of success for others. Essentially such people, unless they have some serious family issues or have taken huge business risks which go bad or face some very expensive illness, manage to get by, one way or the other. I mean, most of such people are not on welfare/food stamps or dependent on relatives/friends. Perhaps it has changed dramatically for the worse in some parts of the Western world after the financial crisis of 2007-08. I do not know enough about that to comment.
In India, I think my statement is true even today, but when viewed from an Indian (lesser) standard of material life.
And yes, of course, I did not take the examples of the people who are born into wealth and simply continue to remain wealthy due to that inheritance.
Regarding the poor too, I would argue that I did not attempt to explain all scenarios. But it has been my observation that those who have an aversion to work (there are quite a few such people, at least in India), and lack skills and knowledge, (and are not wealthy to start with), find it hard to get and keep decent jobs, and so end up becoming poor. Now, of course, there could be terrible economic situations with a tanking economy due to which very few jobs are on offer. That would be a special case.
And then there are matters like expensive medical costs which busts a family into bankruptcy, or some failed business.
But, from a top-level society-as-a-whole perspective, I think imparting of good job oriented skills & knowledge without a big college/community-college debt, and inculcating a work-hard ethic along with an ability to stay away from excessive alcohol or any drug habits, in a normal economy, produces/would produce people who are able to earn a decent living and stay off welfare. Large numbers/majority of such people makes for a healthy and vibrant society.
Please note that I have a NEUTRAL informal-student-observer role in these posts that I put up about the USA presidential elections. Of course, as I am an Indian citizen living in India, there is no question of me voting in these elections.
On the above-mentioned Facebook post, I was asked a question about my views on wealth & income gap between richest of the rich and poorest of the poor. I responded as follows (slightly edited):
Sairam brother --name-snipped--. Thanks for your comment.
My thoughts on this matter are evolving - I mean I am not that well read on these matters, and my thoughts are based on what I have experienced in my life in India and in the materially developed world (Western world mainly), and some little bit of reading and viewing videos.
I think some level of wealth and income gap between people, including the gap between "the richest of richest and poorest of poorest" is natural. More capable people who work hard tend to become rich. People who have an aversion to work, and lack skills or knowledge, tend to become poor. The poorest of the poor are usually those who also end up with some bad addiction like alcohol, or even narcotic drugs.
But it is when people who are willing to work hard but can't find decent jobs, and are willing to study but lack the funds needed to pay high college tuition fees, and when among those who study some/many end up with worthless knowledge and worthless paper degrees along with a high level of college debt, that a society itself can unravel. At such times, the large number of have-nots tend to get together and direct their anger, and sometimes hatred unfortunately, towards the haves, especially the very rich. This is what history teaches us. The worst world war in the history of humanity, World War II, was preceded by financially catastrophic conditions in Germany during the Great Depression years. That enabled the maniacal Adolf Hitler with his equally maniacal Nazi party leaders to come to power and lead Germany and many parts of the industrialized world then into a horrendous world war. They also committed perhaps the greatest genocide in history against fellow human beings by their maniacal killing of 6 million Jews in the Holocaust.
To avoid similar catastrophes from recurring, I think there is a need to reduce the huge levels of wealth & income inequality that currently are a reality in the Western world and even China & India. But I am not for any kind of authoritarian communism NOR for socialism of a kind that stifles free enterprise and encourages dependency. I think the world needs a kind of caring capitalism or compassionate capitalism different from the ruthless and predatory capitalism that brought the USA and the world at large to the brink of a financial catastrophe during the financial crisis of 2007-08.
---end comment---
=====================================
A correspondent (C) wrote in response (and was OK with sharing publicly; slightly edited to fix a typo):
The pope and Mr. Sanders are way behind and offer little but words. Getting anywhere near where we want to be requires decades, if not centuries. A famous and popular Danish politician, nationalist, and priest Nicholai Grundtvig said about 150 years ago: We want a country where few have too much and fewer have too little.And he said that well after the land reforms and education reforms.
---
I (Ravi) responded (slightly edited):
Thank you very much for introducing me to Grundtvig. I don't think I have come across his name earlier!
I saw the introductory paragraph of his wiki page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N._F._S._Grundtvig, and have been quite impressed. Plan to read more on him when I get the time. I loved his quote which you shared "We want a country where few have too much and fewer have too little". I must remember it.
---
Correspondent C wrote back:
He [Ravi: Grundtvig] is - for many reasons - not well known outside Denmark. The wikipedia page is good and as far as I remember accurate. You might like his ideas on education.
---
Terry Reis Kennedy wrote (and was OK with public sharing):
Thanks, Ravi...........I agree with most of this. However, I don't agree that "More capable people who work hard tend to become rich. People who have an aversion to work, and lack skills or knowledge, tend to become poor. The poorest of the poor are usually those who also end up with some bad addiction like alcohol, or even narcotic drugs."
You are forgetting that many rich people just inherit wealth and don't work at all, people who I know very well; and the poor are often some of the most highly educated people and the hardest of workers that for karmic reasons, perhaps, never make it......
Overall, this statement is a generalization in my view. And among the richest and the poorest there is alcohol and drug addiction. If we go beyond the USA we find that there is still slave labor in India, China, Latin America, Africa......and to correct myself in the USA too.
About two years ago, a huge case was settled for mentally handicapped men who were kept locked up in a dormitory at a huge turkey farm and were the ones to gut and clean the turkeys for big corporations. They received pay of $60 per week and they had to pay that out for rent and for food and personal items to the only store they were allowed to shop in...the company store. They never left the compound of where they were forced to live. These men grew physically handicapped from the work of having to scoop out the innards of the turkeys with their bare hands etc. etc. Long hours standing on a cement floor hunched them over, permanently bent.
This had gone on for years until an investigative journalist did some research and opened up the lie that these corporate turkey dealers, all billionaires, had kept hidden in some backwater southern hick town. A class action suit was filed on behalf of the living workers and the dead as well......The men were awarded millions of dollars each, some were reunited with their families who had been told they were dead since childhood when many of them had gone missing being corralled into this slave labor. Those who were able to moved into housing where they could care for themselves. The guilty top execs escaped prison but the managers of the work camp did not. This story brought tears to my eyes when I read it in the USA. It's proof to me that exposing the truth for the good of humanity is the very best thing that a writer can do.
---
I (Ravi) wrote:
Thanks Terry for your very informative, thought-provoking and moving comment. I will respond to it a little later.
---
My (Ravi) response to Terry Reis Kennedy:
Perhaps you are right that I made a generalization when I wrote, "More capable people who work hard tend to become rich. People who have an aversion to work, and lack skills or knowledge, tend to become poor. The poorest of the poor are usually those who also end up with some bad addiction like alcohol, or even narcotic drugs."
However, I would argue that I did not attempt to explain all scenarios, and further I used the word, 'tend' to indicate that there would be exceptions. I think I should modify the first sentence to include both reasonably well off (middle class type) or rich.
It has been my observation in my life in India with some exposure to Western world life too in the 80s & 90s but not extensive exposure, that capable people who work hard do tend to succeed materially, even if that success may be only a middle-class type success for some and a very rich type of success for others. Essentially such people, unless they have some serious family issues or have taken huge business risks which go bad or face some very expensive illness, manage to get by, one way or the other. I mean, most of such people are not on welfare/food stamps or dependent on relatives/friends. Perhaps it has changed dramatically for the worse in some parts of the Western world after the financial crisis of 2007-08. I do not know enough about that to comment.
In India, I think my statement is true even today, but when viewed from an Indian (lesser) standard of material life.
And yes, of course, I did not take the examples of the people who are born into wealth and simply continue to remain wealthy due to that inheritance.
Regarding the poor too, I would argue that I did not attempt to explain all scenarios. But it has been my observation that those who have an aversion to work (there are quite a few such people, at least in India), and lack skills and knowledge, (and are not wealthy to start with), find it hard to get and keep decent jobs, and so end up becoming poor. Now, of course, there could be terrible economic situations with a tanking economy due to which very few jobs are on offer. That would be a special case.
And then there are matters like expensive medical costs which busts a family into bankruptcy, or some failed business.
But, from a top-level society-as-a-whole perspective, I think imparting of good job oriented skills & knowledge without a big college/community-college debt, and inculcating a work-hard ethic along with an ability to stay away from excessive alcohol or any drug habits, in a normal economy, produces/would produce people who are able to earn a decent living and stay off welfare. Large numbers/majority of such people makes for a healthy and vibrant society.
Ravi -
ReplyDelete"compassionate capitalism" - what a dream phrase! I hope and pray that it will materialize one day! Currently, it appears to be just a "passionate capitalism". Hope it will add "com" in front of it!
Unfortunately, one of the fundamental elements of capitalism, namely "competition" turns to become "cutthroat competition", which creates animosity even among real (biological) brothers, forget about others. Question is how to make a competition a compassionate? To me, "compassionate capitalism" sounds almost like a paradox :-(
In my opinion, the proponents of capitalism just expected to get better quality of goods/services at better price. To achieve this, other good things like innovation, entrepreneurship, research etc. automatically get boost. Those proponents probably didn't even expect the competition to be compassionate. If it becomes "compassionate", then "competition" itself will have hard time to survive. Then it comes one step closer to "socialism", which has "compassion"/"equality" etc. besides other good virtues, for/among fellow beings, in its root. But, then we have witnessed that "socialism" also ultimately implodes and can't achieve the desired end results, including compassion.
It seems humanity at large remain in dilemma, and keep coming back to square one. Bharat (aka India) had an ancient and proven socio-economic model, which seemed to have a real chance of success as far as achieving compassion and equality is concerned. Today's sociologists/economists/politicians should make an unbiased and prejudice-free study/research about it and implement the same in modern context with new connotations.
Regards,
Chandu
Interesting word-play with compassion, capitalism and competition! ... Interesting thoughts about economic models. Thanks Chandu.
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