USA Police officers body-slamming school girls who resist arrest; Tips for school kids to avoid such incidents
Please note that some of the videos below may be disturbing as they show USA police officers body-slamming young school girls as a prelude to arresting them.
Given below are the content of a Facebook post of mine, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/1726889117527658, dated April 7th 2016, and some comment exchanges on it (slightly edited).
SAISD Police Officer Body Slams 12-Year-Old Middle School Girl On Concrete Floor, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__GRdC_J_ng, around 30 seconds. .. This report, http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2016/04/texas_school_officer_under_inv.html, states that there are some allegations that the 12 year old girl kicked the police officer. But as can be seen from the video, the Police officer had her in his grasp completely (he was lifting her) before he body slammed her onto the floor (brick floor?). Going by the video, I think the body slam of the 12 year old girl onto the floor was excessive force which could have hurt the kid grievously. Fortunately, the kid did not get hurt badly. The girl does seem to have a history of fights in the school - so she does not seem to be an angel or a saint. ... I think if the girl did kick the police officer, perhaps he could have just slapped her around lightly to get her under control. A body slam onto the brick floor for this 12 year old girl is terribly brutal, even if the law of the state & country (Texas, USA) permits police officers to respond with force when attacked.
--- end post content ---
Sai Das wrote (slightly edited):
She clearly did not kick the officer intentionally. When someone grabs you from behind you don't just go limp; the body's natural reaction is to resist. He could have easily brought her down without body slamming; you don't need to body slam an unarmed 12 year old girl in a school!
I hope the family sues the crap out of the SAPD and --name-snipped-- ends up a mall cop.
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited):
If I recall correctly, the report mentioned that she had kicked BEFORE what we see in the video. But the girl seems to have denied that she kicked the officer.
BTW here's another police officer body slamming school student video (Jan 2016), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtI-PK9N51U, 17 seconds, in Sherman, Texas, USA, which seems to have caused some outrage. But here the girl was older (15 years old) and was into a proper fight with another girl which a civilian (teacher/school administrator?) was unable to break up, which was caught on video. Perhaps the police officer's training was such that he had to jump in to break up the fight by body slamming one of the fighters. Note that the fighting was quite vicious even if they were only using their hands. However, I still think here too, he could have just held the girl back once he had grabbed her. I mean, body slamming could have been considered had she violently resisted her body being held by the officer.
http://www.kxii.com/home/headlines/Sherman-PD-identifies-officer-accused-of-excessive-force-365712091.html has this quote from the slammed girl's cousin:
"Once the officer picked her up, that right there was enough." "They were separated but he had to take it one step further and slam her. That is just too much."
http://www.kxii.com/home/headlines/Sherman-police-response-to-HS-fight-questioned-365493051.html has the slammed girl's mother's views:
"Why did he use excessive force she is just 15 and 129 pounds," Tiffany Bowen, the girl's mother asks. "He grabbed her, and could have walked her off."
But http://www.ksat.com/news/fight-at-texas-high-school-under-investigation-video-of-fight-going-viral has a different take from one person:
"I just thought it was a normal take down. When you're fighting like that, you're not figuring out how. You just slam them down," said --name-snipped--.
---
Sai Das wrote:
Regarding the last comment, that was much more of a struggle than a fight and police are trained to "figure it out" and not just use brute force whenever the opportunity arises.
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
From an adult world perspective, I think it is just a struggle. However from a school fight perspective I felt it to be not just the simple shoving and slapping that one expects from school bullies. Here they were attempting to punch each other with quite some force. A well landed punch on the face can knock out a person and if the head crashes on a hard floor there is even a chance of death. [Just saw a video compilation of school fights where an Iowa, USA boy was caught on video counter-punching another boy. One solid punch knocked the other boy out. As the other boy fell to the floor, he banged his head on the floor and died!!! Since the killer-punch delivering boy was countering the other boy punching/hitting him first, it was deemed self-defence by the former, under Iowa law and he was not held guilty of any crime.]
Should the police officer have "figured it out" and deemed that body-slam was not needed? I think so too, especially as this was happening among school teenager kids and was a fist fight.
But then I think the police officer would have been trained to police regular towns and that training may have been such that as soon as he saw a fist fight, he was kind-of programmed to take down one of the fighters. So I would look carefully at the training that police officers are given before I would consider the police officer fully guilty of using excessive force, in this case.
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Sai Das wrote:
He used excessive and unnecessary force and didn't exercise good judgment and its really that simple. Police are trained not to use excessive force. You may recall the black man that was choked to death by a cop: he was guilty of selling a single cigarette which was illegal in that city.
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Sai Das wrote (slightly edited):
There is no justification for this sort of behavior: it's bad [and] often deadly police work.
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Noted your input that (USA) police are trained not to use excessive force. Looking at all these videos including the Eric Garner video (chokehold that did not let him breathe which, as he was having some lungs related health problems, if I recall correctly, led to his unfortunate death) I thought that maybe police are trained to use force rather freely in the USA, when they see violent or even threatening behaviour.
---
Sai Das wrote (slightly edited):
Ravi S. Iyer They are trained to first try "talking them down" and if they resist they can use force, but (not) excessive force. They are supposed to have the good judgment as to where that line really is. Some cops just like to get into it and will use excessive force at the slightest provocation rather than as a last resort.
The most important thing is to keep this in perspective. This was an unarmed 15 year old girl at school, by herself I might add, so just how much of a threat could she be to a young and strong officer?
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
In both cases, the 12 year-old case mentioned earlier which seems to have made it to the Washington Post (I thought I saw some WaPo link on it) and the 15 year-old case mentioned later, I agree that the police officers could have stopped at grabbing them. There was no need to slam them down. .... But I don't know what the rules/laws exactly are, as somehow the police officers concerned don't seem to be getting pulled up, at least in a significant manner. And that's why I was wondering about the rules/laws/training of police officers in the USA. I mean, there seems to be a lack of transparency in the way these complaints of what seem to be quite clearly use of excessive force, are handled by the USA police.
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Sai Das wrote:
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/what-procedures-must-the-police-follow-while-making-an-arrest.html
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote (edited):
Sai Das, Read the article whose link you provided. It says, "One universal rule police officers must follow is that they are not allowed to use excessive force or treat the arrestee cruelly. Generally, police officers are only allowed to use the minimum amount of force necessary to protect themselves and bring the suspect into police custody. This is why people are advised to never resist an arrest or argue with police. The more a suspect struggles, the more force is required for the police to do their job."
I think the issue with the two videos I shared earlier is that the girls involved (12 & 15 year old) were NOT non-violent OR were allegedly NOT non-violent (the 12 year old girl allegedly kicked the policeman prior to what is seen in the video, which the girl denies). So the case can be viewed as suspects who either were resisting arrest or their being involved in a fight can be viewed as clear grounds to believe that they would resist arrest. And I think once any suspect (even the 12 year old girl) gets into the territory of resisting arrest with violent struggle, the rules & the law would go in favour of the policeman using force like body slam to conduct the arrest. I mean, I doubt a judge would rule that the policeman broke the law by using more force than the minimum force needed to make the arrest of a person who was resisting arrest with some kind of violent struggle. That becomes too nuanced a matter, not really covered by law. That's my view - I could be wrong - I am NOT a lawyer. However, an internal police investigation (which, I guess, would not be so rigorous as a case tried in court) may have senior police officers reprimand the police officer for doing the body slam of the unarmed 12 year old girl resisting arrest, as having used excessive force. And if the reprimand is a first time for the officer, I think he may not face more serious disciplinary action.
In contrast, here's a case where a police officer got fired for something like body slam of a school girl. South Carolina Cop Body Slams High School Student To The Ground, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY1e8qe-2O8, 1 min. 24 secs, Oct. 2015
From http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/10/video-school-cop-body-slams-and-drags-black-female-student:
Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott told WIS-TV that the school resource officer (SRO) was responding to a student who was refusing to leave class. "The student was told she was under arrest for disturbing school and given instructions, which she again refused," Lott said. "The video then shows the student resisting and being arrested by the SRO."
...
Update, October 28, 2015, 1:36 p.m. EDT: Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott announced on Wednesday that the officer in the video, identified as deputy sheriff Ben Fields, was fired from his post.
--- end extracts from motherjones.com
In this case, the student did not obey the instructions to leave the class. She did not obey the instructions of the police officer but she was not being violent. So the police officer would have had no defence in the DOJ and FBI investigation when he would have been asked why he chose to use so much violence on the NON-VIOLENT schoolgirl to conduct his arrest.
I think the clear learnings (tips to school kids and parents) from these videos on schoolgirl violent arrest by police officers that we have discussed, are:
a) School kids should completely avoid any violence in the school (having security/police officers). If some bully hits a school kid it is better for the school kid to try to run away and then complain to a teacher/administrator rather than try to fight back. The exception case being that the school kid is unable to run away in which case he/she may have no option but to fight back in self-defence.
b) School kids should obey a police officer's commands (like leaving a classroom) immediately.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited):
Oh! Just saw this video (whose link had appeared when I played the above video on youtube) which gives a pro-police officer view. Hmm. It does give some food for thought about the girl getting a little combative when the officer was making her get up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmP-KuHHMnI&nohtml5=False, around 2 mins.
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Sai Das wrote:
In the opening you are talking about two things: the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Was she resisting arrest? We don't really know for sure since the video doesn't show everything. Was she struggling? Yes. It could be easily argued that when you are grabbed from suddenly from behind, it is the body's natural reaction to resist.
The key to this is "excessive force". As I said before body slamming a 12 or 15 year unarmed old girl, by herself, by a young and strong officer I think is clearly "excessive force". Police officers are trained in fighting and even take downs and let's not forget this guy was in the military too. There are other ways to take a person down without body slamming them...especially a teenage girl!
Here is yet another example. You could use your same argument that she was resisting arrest by walking away but c'mon, there was no other way to stop her? She could have easily died or been paralyzed from having her head slammed into the wall:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=255-WN-M46Q
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited):
Another brutal body slam and yes, she could have died or had some grievous injury. Now, I am NOT arguing FOR such body slams at all! I am trying to understand the possible argument of police officers and lawyers who represent them, to justify these actions UNDER USA LAW. And I think I now do understand their arguments UNDER USA LAW. That does not mean I think USA LAW is right, especially when it allows 12 year old girls to be body slammed by police officers as they have not co-operated with the officer. ... I think the LAW needs to be modified somewhat for these cop body slamming school kid cases. Then the police officer can be prosecuted UNDER THE LAW for using excessive force even when a school kid is NON VIOLENTLY resisting arrest. However, there may be effective counter-arguments from police officers and their associations/unions. Their voices MUST BE HEARD as they are the people who actually deal with such juvenile bad behaviour cases.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited):
Sai Das, May I share your comments above on one of my blogs (Misc. blog)? The intent of making a blog post on this is to first inform and then provide tips to USA school kids and their parents about how to avoid being body-slammed by a school police officer (run away from school fights; immediately obey a police officer's commands).
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Sai Das wrote: Yes of course. :-)
Just don't make it sound as if I condone this sort of action from the police because I don't. You can't expect teenagers to reason and respond as adults do.
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
I will be sharing your words as is. Any minor editing may be ONLY for correcting spelling/grammatical kind of typos which is very rare for your comments.
---
[I thank kxii.com, ksat.com, criminal.findlaw.com & motherjones.com and have presumed that they will not have any objections to me sharing the above short extracts from their websites on this post which is freely viewable by all, and does not have any financial profit motive whatsoever.]
Given below are the content of a Facebook post of mine, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/1726889117527658, dated April 7th 2016, and some comment exchanges on it (slightly edited).
SAISD Police Officer Body Slams 12-Year-Old Middle School Girl On Concrete Floor, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__GRdC_J_ng, around 30 seconds. .. This report, http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2016/04/texas_school_officer_under_inv.html, states that there are some allegations that the 12 year old girl kicked the police officer. But as can be seen from the video, the Police officer had her in his grasp completely (he was lifting her) before he body slammed her onto the floor (brick floor?). Going by the video, I think the body slam of the 12 year old girl onto the floor was excessive force which could have hurt the kid grievously. Fortunately, the kid did not get hurt badly. The girl does seem to have a history of fights in the school - so she does not seem to be an angel or a saint. ... I think if the girl did kick the police officer, perhaps he could have just slapped her around lightly to get her under control. A body slam onto the brick floor for this 12 year old girl is terribly brutal, even if the law of the state & country (Texas, USA) permits police officers to respond with force when attacked.
--- end post content ---
Sai Das wrote (slightly edited):
She clearly did not kick the officer intentionally. When someone grabs you from behind you don't just go limp; the body's natural reaction is to resist. He could have easily brought her down without body slamming; you don't need to body slam an unarmed 12 year old girl in a school!
I hope the family sues the crap out of the SAPD and --name-snipped-- ends up a mall cop.
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited):
If I recall correctly, the report mentioned that she had kicked BEFORE what we see in the video. But the girl seems to have denied that she kicked the officer.
BTW here's another police officer body slamming school student video (Jan 2016), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtI-PK9N51U, 17 seconds, in Sherman, Texas, USA, which seems to have caused some outrage. But here the girl was older (15 years old) and was into a proper fight with another girl which a civilian (teacher/school administrator?) was unable to break up, which was caught on video. Perhaps the police officer's training was such that he had to jump in to break up the fight by body slamming one of the fighters. Note that the fighting was quite vicious even if they were only using their hands. However, I still think here too, he could have just held the girl back once he had grabbed her. I mean, body slamming could have been considered had she violently resisted her body being held by the officer.
http://www.kxii.com/home/headlines/Sherman-PD-identifies-officer-accused-of-excessive-force-365712091.html has this quote from the slammed girl's cousin:
"Once the officer picked her up, that right there was enough." "They were separated but he had to take it one step further and slam her. That is just too much."
http://www.kxii.com/home/headlines/Sherman-police-response-to-HS-fight-questioned-365493051.html has the slammed girl's mother's views:
"Why did he use excessive force she is just 15 and 129 pounds," Tiffany Bowen, the girl's mother asks. "He grabbed her, and could have walked her off."
But http://www.ksat.com/news/fight-at-texas-high-school-under-investigation-video-of-fight-going-viral has a different take from one person:
"I just thought it was a normal take down. When you're fighting like that, you're not figuring out how. You just slam them down," said --name-snipped--.
---
Sai Das wrote:
Regarding the last comment, that was much more of a struggle than a fight and police are trained to "figure it out" and not just use brute force whenever the opportunity arises.
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
From an adult world perspective, I think it is just a struggle. However from a school fight perspective I felt it to be not just the simple shoving and slapping that one expects from school bullies. Here they were attempting to punch each other with quite some force. A well landed punch on the face can knock out a person and if the head crashes on a hard floor there is even a chance of death. [Just saw a video compilation of school fights where an Iowa, USA boy was caught on video counter-punching another boy. One solid punch knocked the other boy out. As the other boy fell to the floor, he banged his head on the floor and died!!! Since the killer-punch delivering boy was countering the other boy punching/hitting him first, it was deemed self-defence by the former, under Iowa law and he was not held guilty of any crime.]
Should the police officer have "figured it out" and deemed that body-slam was not needed? I think so too, especially as this was happening among school teenager kids and was a fist fight.
But then I think the police officer would have been trained to police regular towns and that training may have been such that as soon as he saw a fist fight, he was kind-of programmed to take down one of the fighters. So I would look carefully at the training that police officers are given before I would consider the police officer fully guilty of using excessive force, in this case.
---
Sai Das wrote:
He used excessive and unnecessary force and didn't exercise good judgment and its really that simple. Police are trained not to use excessive force. You may recall the black man that was choked to death by a cop: he was guilty of selling a single cigarette which was illegal in that city.
---
Sai Das wrote (slightly edited):
There is no justification for this sort of behavior: it's bad [and] often deadly police work.
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Noted your input that (USA) police are trained not to use excessive force. Looking at all these videos including the Eric Garner video (chokehold that did not let him breathe which, as he was having some lungs related health problems, if I recall correctly, led to his unfortunate death) I thought that maybe police are trained to use force rather freely in the USA, when they see violent or even threatening behaviour.
---
Sai Das wrote (slightly edited):
Ravi S. Iyer They are trained to first try "talking them down" and if they resist they can use force, but (not) excessive force. They are supposed to have the good judgment as to where that line really is. Some cops just like to get into it and will use excessive force at the slightest provocation rather than as a last resort.
The most important thing is to keep this in perspective. This was an unarmed 15 year old girl at school, by herself I might add, so just how much of a threat could she be to a young and strong officer?
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
In both cases, the 12 year-old case mentioned earlier which seems to have made it to the Washington Post (I thought I saw some WaPo link on it) and the 15 year-old case mentioned later, I agree that the police officers could have stopped at grabbing them. There was no need to slam them down. .... But I don't know what the rules/laws exactly are, as somehow the police officers concerned don't seem to be getting pulled up, at least in a significant manner. And that's why I was wondering about the rules/laws/training of police officers in the USA. I mean, there seems to be a lack of transparency in the way these complaints of what seem to be quite clearly use of excessive force, are handled by the USA police.
---
Sai Das wrote:
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/what-procedures-must-the-police-follow-while-making-an-arrest.html
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote (edited):
Sai Das, Read the article whose link you provided. It says, "One universal rule police officers must follow is that they are not allowed to use excessive force or treat the arrestee cruelly. Generally, police officers are only allowed to use the minimum amount of force necessary to protect themselves and bring the suspect into police custody. This is why people are advised to never resist an arrest or argue with police. The more a suspect struggles, the more force is required for the police to do their job."
I think the issue with the two videos I shared earlier is that the girls involved (12 & 15 year old) were NOT non-violent OR were allegedly NOT non-violent (the 12 year old girl allegedly kicked the policeman prior to what is seen in the video, which the girl denies). So the case can be viewed as suspects who either were resisting arrest or their being involved in a fight can be viewed as clear grounds to believe that they would resist arrest. And I think once any suspect (even the 12 year old girl) gets into the territory of resisting arrest with violent struggle, the rules & the law would go in favour of the policeman using force like body slam to conduct the arrest. I mean, I doubt a judge would rule that the policeman broke the law by using more force than the minimum force needed to make the arrest of a person who was resisting arrest with some kind of violent struggle. That becomes too nuanced a matter, not really covered by law. That's my view - I could be wrong - I am NOT a lawyer. However, an internal police investigation (which, I guess, would not be so rigorous as a case tried in court) may have senior police officers reprimand the police officer for doing the body slam of the unarmed 12 year old girl resisting arrest, as having used excessive force. And if the reprimand is a first time for the officer, I think he may not face more serious disciplinary action.
In contrast, here's a case where a police officer got fired for something like body slam of a school girl. South Carolina Cop Body Slams High School Student To The Ground, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY1e8qe-2O8, 1 min. 24 secs, Oct. 2015
From http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/10/video-school-cop-body-slams-and-drags-black-female-student:
Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott told WIS-TV that the school resource officer (SRO) was responding to a student who was refusing to leave class. "The student was told she was under arrest for disturbing school and given instructions, which she again refused," Lott said. "The video then shows the student resisting and being arrested by the SRO."
...
Update, October 28, 2015, 1:36 p.m. EDT: Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott announced on Wednesday that the officer in the video, identified as deputy sheriff Ben Fields, was fired from his post.
--- end extracts from motherjones.com
In this case, the student did not obey the instructions to leave the class. She did not obey the instructions of the police officer but she was not being violent. So the police officer would have had no defence in the DOJ and FBI investigation when he would have been asked why he chose to use so much violence on the NON-VIOLENT schoolgirl to conduct his arrest.
I think the clear learnings (tips to school kids and parents) from these videos on schoolgirl violent arrest by police officers that we have discussed, are:
a) School kids should completely avoid any violence in the school (having security/police officers). If some bully hits a school kid it is better for the school kid to try to run away and then complain to a teacher/administrator rather than try to fight back. The exception case being that the school kid is unable to run away in which case he/she may have no option but to fight back in self-defence.
b) School kids should obey a police officer's commands (like leaving a classroom) immediately.
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited):
Oh! Just saw this video (whose link had appeared when I played the above video on youtube) which gives a pro-police officer view. Hmm. It does give some food for thought about the girl getting a little combative when the officer was making her get up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmP-KuHHMnI&nohtml5=False, around 2 mins.
---
Sai Das wrote:
In the opening you are talking about two things: the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Was she resisting arrest? We don't really know for sure since the video doesn't show everything. Was she struggling? Yes. It could be easily argued that when you are grabbed from suddenly from behind, it is the body's natural reaction to resist.
The key to this is "excessive force". As I said before body slamming a 12 or 15 year unarmed old girl, by herself, by a young and strong officer I think is clearly "excessive force". Police officers are trained in fighting and even take downs and let's not forget this guy was in the military too. There are other ways to take a person down without body slamming them...especially a teenage girl!
Here is yet another example. You could use your same argument that she was resisting arrest by walking away but c'mon, there was no other way to stop her? She could have easily died or been paralyzed from having her head slammed into the wall:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=255-WN-M46Q
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited):
Another brutal body slam and yes, she could have died or had some grievous injury. Now, I am NOT arguing FOR such body slams at all! I am trying to understand the possible argument of police officers and lawyers who represent them, to justify these actions UNDER USA LAW. And I think I now do understand their arguments UNDER USA LAW. That does not mean I think USA LAW is right, especially when it allows 12 year old girls to be body slammed by police officers as they have not co-operated with the officer. ... I think the LAW needs to be modified somewhat for these cop body slamming school kid cases. Then the police officer can be prosecuted UNDER THE LAW for using excessive force even when a school kid is NON VIOLENTLY resisting arrest. However, there may be effective counter-arguments from police officers and their associations/unions. Their voices MUST BE HEARD as they are the people who actually deal with such juvenile bad behaviour cases.
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited):
Sai Das, May I share your comments above on one of my blogs (Misc. blog)? The intent of making a blog post on this is to first inform and then provide tips to USA school kids and their parents about how to avoid being body-slammed by a school police officer (run away from school fights; immediately obey a police officer's commands).
---
Sai Das wrote: Yes of course. :-)
Just don't make it sound as if I condone this sort of action from the police because I don't. You can't expect teenagers to reason and respond as adults do.
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
I will be sharing your words as is. Any minor editing may be ONLY for correcting spelling/grammatical kind of typos which is very rare for your comments.
---
[I thank kxii.com, ksat.com, criminal.findlaw.com & motherjones.com and have presumed that they will not have any objections to me sharing the above short extracts from their websites on this post which is freely viewable by all, and does not have any financial profit motive whatsoever.]
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