Does USA President Trump's Tuesday, 15th Aug. press conf. remarks show that he is insincere in his condemnation of white supremacists & neo Nazis?
One of the concerns raised with one of my previous posts, USA President Trump UNEQUIVOCALLY CONDEMNS racism and white supremacists BY NAME in context of Charlottesville tragedy!, http://ravisiyermisc.blogspot.in/2017/08/usa-president-trump-unequivocally.html, was whether Trump's condemnation of white supremacists/nationalists & neo Nazis was insincere and forced, given the delay of two days between the tragedy in Charlottesville and Trump's condemnation by name of white supremacists/nationalists and neo Nazis.
My response then was as follows:
Top rulers (like Presidents and Prime Ministers) are not perfect. As a social media writer, the vital thing for me was Trump, AS PRESIDENT OF USA, naming violent racism, neo Nazism and white supremacy as evil. He had not done that so far, as president, if I recall correctly, which was creating a terrifying situation where the neo Nazis and white supremacists were claiming that PRESIDENT Trump is protecting them. That situation changed dramatically for the better after Trump's by name condemnation of them. Not only is there a clear video of PRESIDENT Trump saying those words, but I think Trump has got the message that as President, he HAS TO say such words, as that is the expectation of the majority of people across the spectrum in the USA.
Now about whether his condemnation by name of white supremacists and Neo Nazis was sincere or a lie (refers to Monday remarks of Trump): Well, I think, given my role as a social media writer on spirituality & religion, I need to give Trump the benefit of the doubt. If he does any significant action that clearly supports or protects the white supremacists and Neo Nazis then I think I will consider writing about it, and consider questioning the sincerity of his condemnation.
The Attorney General and the FBI director seem to have ensured a proper investigation into the matter, with the AG terming it as "domestic terrorism". That sounds like tough action to me. And Trump has not been reported to have done anything to stop or hinder this investigation. So if the white supremacists & Neo Nazis think Trump is protecting them then they may be in for a rude shock with what this federal investigation might do.
From my Indian spiritual writer perspective, I don't think I am being too kind to PRESIDENT Trump as conveyed by his official words (as on Monday) and official actions on this matter. Even the prayer that I wrote on my post is tied in to the official words of PRESIDENT Trump. Now what views he espouses in private, and what contradictory actions he may take in private (on this matter), are things that I don't want to publicly write about on this sensitive and very important matter for me. Journalists and USA citizens may want to publicly opine on such private words and private actions of Trump, but as an Indian spiritual writer, I think I should limit my public writings to public statements of president Trump.
==================================================
On 15th Aug. (Tuesday), president Trump gave free-wheeling/unscripted answers and comments on this matter. Relevant extracts are given below from: Full Transcript and Video: Trump’s News Conference in New York, https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/us/politics/trump-press-conference-transcript.html.
TRUMP: I will tell you something. I watched those very closely, much more closely than you people watched it. And you had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that. But I’ll say it right now.
You had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent.
REPORTER: Do you think that what you call the alt-left is the same as neo-Nazis?
TRUMP: All of those people — Excuse me — I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.
So — excuse me — and you take a look at some of the groups and you see and you would know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases, you are not. But, many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. So this week, it is Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?
But they were there to protest — excuse me — you take a look, the night before, they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.
...
REPORTER: Mr. President, are you putting what you are calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?
TRUMP: I am not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch. But there is another side. There was a group on this side, you can call them the left. You have just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.
REPORTER: You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides?
TRUMP: Well I do think there’s blame. Yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it. And you don’t have doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say.
REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest —
TRUMP: Excuse me. They didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis. And you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.
You had people in that group — excuse me, excuse me — I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.
[cross talk]
TRUMP: George Washington as a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down — excuse me — are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him. Good.
Are we going to take down the statue? Cause he was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? So you know what? It’s fine. You are changing history, you’re changing culture. You had people and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally. You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. O.K.? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.
Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group too.
REPORTER: Who has the press treated unfairly? Sir, I’m sorry, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just didn’t understand what you were saying.
TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally. I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I am sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest.
Because I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this. There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country.
--- end relevant extracts of transcript of President Trump's press conference ---
Ravi: In this post at least, I do not want to get into the issues related to Robert E. Lee statue, confederacy and slave ownership by George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. As an Indian social media writer, those issues do not bother me much but I do recognize that it would be of great concern to many people, especially Americans. For me the big concerns are the evils of white supremacy/nationalism and neo Nazism which I consider as very dangerous to our world today, and so I publicly oppose it by writing on social media against it.
So the key question that I have to focus on, from the above extracts, is: Do above responses and comments of Trump expose an insincerity in his condemnation of white supremacists/nationalists & neo Nazis?
1) Trump does repeat that he condemns the white supremacists/nationalists and neo Nazis in this press conference. But that repetition does not necessarily make it sincere.
2) Trump did not accept grouping all the people who protested (as against the counter-protesters) as white nationalists and neo Nazis. He said that all of these protesters were NOT white nationalists and neo Nazis, and that some of them were non white nationalists/non neo Nazi people who were "protesting very quietly the taking down (of) the statue of Robert E. Lee". In the limited browsing that I have done, I did not find reliable data related to this. The USA mainstream media articles and videos present a different picture from what Trump seems to imply, showing protesters having white nationalist and neo Nazi signs on their clothes or holding such signs/flags. I mean, I did not come across any media article talking about the protesters having non white nationalist and non neo Nazis who are quietly protesting removal of Robert E Lee statue. Some videos show the protesters chanting anti-Jew slogans as well as slogans like "Blood and soil" which are related to Nazis.
So I think Trump needs to provide supporting data from respectable sources which could be USA governmental/security agencies to back up his statement about presence of a (significant) number of non white nationalists and non neo Nazis who were quietly protesting Robert E Lee statue removal. Otherwise I will view his statement as being, in all probability, false.
3) Trump said, "Well I do think there’s blame (for hatred and violence). Yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it." Trump does not mention the quantum of blame; i.e. he does not specifically say equal blame on both sides, but the language gives the impression that that's what he means! Trump also mentioned about violent people among the counter-protesters who attacked the protesters. And Trump mentioned, perhaps correctly, that the protesters had acquired a legal right to protest whereas the counter-protesters did not have the requisite permission.
I think it is hard to find data that clearly proves who started the (large) majority of the fights - the protesters or the counter-protesters. The counter-protesters were NOT NON-VIOLENT. They did indulge in violence.
Of course, the biggest violence eventually came from the protesters side with the insane and horrific attack of a car plowing into counter-protester sort-of rally which killed 1 person and injured 19, and which act Trump very clearly and unequivocally condemned. So that made the protesters' side total violence as much bigger than the counter-protester side.
Regarding the blame for the hatred and violence and who is to blame more for it, I would like to break it into two parts. Blame for hatred and blame for violence. With the exception of the above car plowing attack, I think it is difficult to decide without proper police data on the various fights including who started it, who is to blame for the violence and how much blame. So I prefer to not comment on the blame for the violence part (excluding the car plowing attack), as of now.
But on the blame for the hatred part, I think that all the videos and pics I saw and the reports I read, show that the protesters were the main persons to be blamed. It is the protesters who chanted against Jews right inside University of Virginia (UVa)! It is the protesters who did not respond with love towards the counter-protesters from various faiths and ethnicity in a church in the UVa who were trying to spread love among people of various faiths and ethnicity.
The chants of the counter protesters seem to have been against this hatred of the white nationalists and neo Nazis. They were not chants against people of any race or religion.
I also would like to put the blame of intimidation by showing off assault weapons and military type uniforms & other military gear like body armour, on the protesters group. Most if not all of the military group/militia of the protesters seem to have been white nationalists and/or neo Nazis. They paraded these weapons and uniforms! It was not as if they were a reserve unit ready to be called in to break up fights that the police were unable to break up. In stark contrast, I did not see a single pic/video of the counter-protesters having even small guns (perhaps some of them did have arms but I did not see those pics) let alone assault weapons.
So I think that on the blame for hatred and blame for military weaponry intimidation, the blame seems to be mainly, if not wholly, on the protesters (and NOT the counter-protesters).
----
Overall I think USA President Trump has muddied the waters with the above unscripted remarks of his (on Tuesday). I think they weaken his words about condemnation of white supremacists/nationalists and neo Nazis. It surely reduces the strength of his scripted condemnation message of Monday. And that is disappointing and unfortunate. I do hope that USA president Trump avoids unscripted and free-wheeling conversations on such dangerous topics like armed militias with military weapons in the USA, white supremacists/nationalists and neo Nazis. Civil war kind of battles can break out quite easily with the kind of weaponry that is in the hands of USA citizens. The white nationalists/supremacists and neo Nazis would want such battles to break out. President Trump needs to ensure that he does not provide any fuel for such battles with his unscripted remarks on such super-sensitive matters. Once such fires get lit, it may be very difficult for President Trump with all the forces under his command to easily douse them.
But the above analysis does not lead me to a conclusion that President Trump is insincere about his condemnation of white nationalists/supremacists and neo Nazis. Perhaps he does not realize that some of his unscripted remarks are encouraging white nationalists/supremacists and neo Nazis. One hopes that he understands this damaging but unintentional encouragement his unscripted remarks are giving to them, and so stops making such unscripted remarks on these super-sensitive topics.
[I thank nytimes.com and have presumed that they will not have any objections to me sharing the above extracts of transcript of President Trump's press conference from their website on this post which is freely viewable by all, and does not have any financial profit motive whatsoever. Note that this post deals with a matter of public safety and well being.]
My response then was as follows:
Top rulers (like Presidents and Prime Ministers) are not perfect. As a social media writer, the vital thing for me was Trump, AS PRESIDENT OF USA, naming violent racism, neo Nazism and white supremacy as evil. He had not done that so far, as president, if I recall correctly, which was creating a terrifying situation where the neo Nazis and white supremacists were claiming that PRESIDENT Trump is protecting them. That situation changed dramatically for the better after Trump's by name condemnation of them. Not only is there a clear video of PRESIDENT Trump saying those words, but I think Trump has got the message that as President, he HAS TO say such words, as that is the expectation of the majority of people across the spectrum in the USA.
Now about whether his condemnation by name of white supremacists and Neo Nazis was sincere or a lie (refers to Monday remarks of Trump): Well, I think, given my role as a social media writer on spirituality & religion, I need to give Trump the benefit of the doubt. If he does any significant action that clearly supports or protects the white supremacists and Neo Nazis then I think I will consider writing about it, and consider questioning the sincerity of his condemnation.
The Attorney General and the FBI director seem to have ensured a proper investigation into the matter, with the AG terming it as "domestic terrorism". That sounds like tough action to me. And Trump has not been reported to have done anything to stop or hinder this investigation. So if the white supremacists & Neo Nazis think Trump is protecting them then they may be in for a rude shock with what this federal investigation might do.
From my Indian spiritual writer perspective, I don't think I am being too kind to PRESIDENT Trump as conveyed by his official words (as on Monday) and official actions on this matter. Even the prayer that I wrote on my post is tied in to the official words of PRESIDENT Trump. Now what views he espouses in private, and what contradictory actions he may take in private (on this matter), are things that I don't want to publicly write about on this sensitive and very important matter for me. Journalists and USA citizens may want to publicly opine on such private words and private actions of Trump, but as an Indian spiritual writer, I think I should limit my public writings to public statements of president Trump.
==================================================
On 15th Aug. (Tuesday), president Trump gave free-wheeling/unscripted answers and comments on this matter. Relevant extracts are given below from: Full Transcript and Video: Trump’s News Conference in New York, https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/us/politics/trump-press-conference-transcript.html.
TRUMP: I will tell you something. I watched those very closely, much more closely than you people watched it. And you had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that. But I’ll say it right now.
You had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent.
REPORTER: Do you think that what you call the alt-left is the same as neo-Nazis?
TRUMP: All of those people — Excuse me — I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.
So — excuse me — and you take a look at some of the groups and you see and you would know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases, you are not. But, many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. So this week, it is Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?
But they were there to protest — excuse me — you take a look, the night before, they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.
...
REPORTER: Mr. President, are you putting what you are calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?
TRUMP: I am not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch. But there is another side. There was a group on this side, you can call them the left. You have just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.
REPORTER: You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides?
TRUMP: Well I do think there’s blame. Yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it. And you don’t have doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say.
REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest —
TRUMP: Excuse me. They didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis. And you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.
You had people in that group — excuse me, excuse me — I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.
[cross talk]
TRUMP: George Washington as a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down — excuse me — are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him. Good.
Are we going to take down the statue? Cause he was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? So you know what? It’s fine. You are changing history, you’re changing culture. You had people and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally. You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. O.K.? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.
Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group too.
REPORTER: Who has the press treated unfairly? Sir, I’m sorry, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just didn’t understand what you were saying.
TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally. I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I am sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest.
Because I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this. There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country.
--- end relevant extracts of transcript of President Trump's press conference ---
Ravi: In this post at least, I do not want to get into the issues related to Robert E. Lee statue, confederacy and slave ownership by George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. As an Indian social media writer, those issues do not bother me much but I do recognize that it would be of great concern to many people, especially Americans. For me the big concerns are the evils of white supremacy/nationalism and neo Nazism which I consider as very dangerous to our world today, and so I publicly oppose it by writing on social media against it.
So the key question that I have to focus on, from the above extracts, is: Do above responses and comments of Trump expose an insincerity in his condemnation of white supremacists/nationalists & neo Nazis?
1) Trump does repeat that he condemns the white supremacists/nationalists and neo Nazis in this press conference. But that repetition does not necessarily make it sincere.
2) Trump did not accept grouping all the people who protested (as against the counter-protesters) as white nationalists and neo Nazis. He said that all of these protesters were NOT white nationalists and neo Nazis, and that some of them were non white nationalists/non neo Nazi people who were "protesting very quietly the taking down (of) the statue of Robert E. Lee". In the limited browsing that I have done, I did not find reliable data related to this. The USA mainstream media articles and videos present a different picture from what Trump seems to imply, showing protesters having white nationalist and neo Nazi signs on their clothes or holding such signs/flags. I mean, I did not come across any media article talking about the protesters having non white nationalist and non neo Nazis who are quietly protesting removal of Robert E Lee statue. Some videos show the protesters chanting anti-Jew slogans as well as slogans like "Blood and soil" which are related to Nazis.
So I think Trump needs to provide supporting data from respectable sources which could be USA governmental/security agencies to back up his statement about presence of a (significant) number of non white nationalists and non neo Nazis who were quietly protesting Robert E Lee statue removal. Otherwise I will view his statement as being, in all probability, false.
3) Trump said, "Well I do think there’s blame (for hatred and violence). Yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it." Trump does not mention the quantum of blame; i.e. he does not specifically say equal blame on both sides, but the language gives the impression that that's what he means! Trump also mentioned about violent people among the counter-protesters who attacked the protesters. And Trump mentioned, perhaps correctly, that the protesters had acquired a legal right to protest whereas the counter-protesters did not have the requisite permission.
I think it is hard to find data that clearly proves who started the (large) majority of the fights - the protesters or the counter-protesters. The counter-protesters were NOT NON-VIOLENT. They did indulge in violence.
Of course, the biggest violence eventually came from the protesters side with the insane and horrific attack of a car plowing into counter-protester sort-of rally which killed 1 person and injured 19, and which act Trump very clearly and unequivocally condemned. So that made the protesters' side total violence as much bigger than the counter-protester side.
Regarding the blame for the hatred and violence and who is to blame more for it, I would like to break it into two parts. Blame for hatred and blame for violence. With the exception of the above car plowing attack, I think it is difficult to decide without proper police data on the various fights including who started it, who is to blame for the violence and how much blame. So I prefer to not comment on the blame for the violence part (excluding the car plowing attack), as of now.
But on the blame for the hatred part, I think that all the videos and pics I saw and the reports I read, show that the protesters were the main persons to be blamed. It is the protesters who chanted against Jews right inside University of Virginia (UVa)! It is the protesters who did not respond with love towards the counter-protesters from various faiths and ethnicity in a church in the UVa who were trying to spread love among people of various faiths and ethnicity.
The chants of the counter protesters seem to have been against this hatred of the white nationalists and neo Nazis. They were not chants against people of any race or religion.
I also would like to put the blame of intimidation by showing off assault weapons and military type uniforms & other military gear like body armour, on the protesters group. Most if not all of the military group/militia of the protesters seem to have been white nationalists and/or neo Nazis. They paraded these weapons and uniforms! It was not as if they were a reserve unit ready to be called in to break up fights that the police were unable to break up. In stark contrast, I did not see a single pic/video of the counter-protesters having even small guns (perhaps some of them did have arms but I did not see those pics) let alone assault weapons.
So I think that on the blame for hatred and blame for military weaponry intimidation, the blame seems to be mainly, if not wholly, on the protesters (and NOT the counter-protesters).
----
Overall I think USA President Trump has muddied the waters with the above unscripted remarks of his (on Tuesday). I think they weaken his words about condemnation of white supremacists/nationalists and neo Nazis. It surely reduces the strength of his scripted condemnation message of Monday. And that is disappointing and unfortunate. I do hope that USA president Trump avoids unscripted and free-wheeling conversations on such dangerous topics like armed militias with military weapons in the USA, white supremacists/nationalists and neo Nazis. Civil war kind of battles can break out quite easily with the kind of weaponry that is in the hands of USA citizens. The white nationalists/supremacists and neo Nazis would want such battles to break out. President Trump needs to ensure that he does not provide any fuel for such battles with his unscripted remarks on such super-sensitive matters. Once such fires get lit, it may be very difficult for President Trump with all the forces under his command to easily douse them.
But the above analysis does not lead me to a conclusion that President Trump is insincere about his condemnation of white nationalists/supremacists and neo Nazis. Perhaps he does not realize that some of his unscripted remarks are encouraging white nationalists/supremacists and neo Nazis. One hopes that he understands this damaging but unintentional encouragement his unscripted remarks are giving to them, and so stops making such unscripted remarks on these super-sensitive topics.
[I thank nytimes.com and have presumed that they will not have any objections to me sharing the above extracts of transcript of President Trump's press conference from their website on this post which is freely viewable by all, and does not have any financial profit motive whatsoever. Note that this post deals with a matter of public safety and well being.]
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